“Insurers aren’t bad at marketing, it's just that they haven’t had to be good at it”.
Listen to Robin and Matthew host another set of lively discussions from our 'Marketing Innovation in Insurance' event on April 30th.
Creative, and still a bit edgy, we moved up to Shoreditch for our April event and we weren’t disappointed; with over 100 people attending their first InsTech London event, plus a similar number of regulars.
Highlights on the 'Part 1' podcast include AM Best (17:37) talking about the response to their innovation rating methodology, Ninety Consulting (20:18) reveal their innovation methodology and AXA (27:00) discuss its partners programme. Inshur (1:44) also explain what motivates Uber drivers to buy insurance and Gobsmack (9:35) describe a new angle on reward programmes.
Look out for 'Part 2' coming soon. More details of the event, including all of the photos are available on the event page. Thanks go to the LMA for sponsoring.
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Transcript for this podcast
00:00 Robin Merttens: Insurers aren't necessarily bad at marketing, but they haven't had to be good at it.
00:07 Matthew Grant: Hello, and welcome to the InsTech London Podcast. This is Matthew Grant, partner at InsTech London. And for this episode, we are bringing you Part One of our Marketing of Innovation in Insurance event that we held on the 30th of April. Marketing in insurance is tough, so we set about to show some of the innovation that is happening around marketing itself. And we had a great evening, we weren't disappointed by some of the things we learned. First up is Robin Merttens talking to Paul Doran, VP of Marketing from INSHUR who provide insurance for professional drivers, including those working for Uber. Next, we have Paul Glen, Commercial Director from Gobsmack talking about some of the cash rewards they're providing as part of the insurance purchase. Carlos Wong-Fupuy from AM Best, and Dan White from Ninety Consulting, talk about AM Best's new rating methodology which has generated a lot of interest across the innovation world and insurance.
01:06 MG: Ninety themselves have got their own innovation maturity audit, and so Robin is talking to both AM Best and Ninety about both of those. And then finally, Milan Sud, Head of Innovation for AXA is back talking about how they are working with partners to promote AXA both directly and through their third parties. We'll return next week with Part Two. In the mean time, you can learn more about what we're doing at InsTech London from www.InsTechlondon along with commentary, photos and news of future events.
01:44 RM: Paul Doran who's the VP of Marketing at INSHUR. What we sought to address when we were running this event was who of the Insurtechs have picked up a reputation for doing marketing really well. And we're going to examine two things, we're going to examine B2C marketing, those people who are going direct to consumer and marketing well, and later on we're going to discuss B2B marketing and those people who are addressing a different issue, which is how to get to get to brokers end term. So Paul, firstly, for those who don't know, what does INSHUR do?
02:24 Paul Doran: Thank you for the introduction. And a quick overview of what the product does, we provide a commercial insurance product for, the easiest way to describe is, Uber drivers. A commercial insurance product for Uber drivers where they can quote, buy and then manage a policy all via their mobile phone in about three minutes, which is classically a process for your average Uber driver that might take three hours, it might take three days. So we've whittled the experience and the process down to a time that's much more acceptable for a driver who lives and dies by time and is incredibly focused on earning money as fast as possible.
03:10 RM: I think based on some of the Uber drivers I've been with, if you can get them to buy insurance, that's a pretty powerful tool.
03:17 RM: But look, how do you market to these people? They're not people who would naturally…who you'd market to.
03:22 PD: Yes, they're a really fascinating audience, and I think when I took this job two and a half years ago, I fell into it more than took it, but taxi insurance is not necessarily that sexy. And it's compounded by the fact that you're dealing with a hugely diverse audience and customer base. If you think about New York, there's a huge Hispanic community, in the UK, there's a big Bangladeshi. So you have this massive diversity and that really is a challenge. And one of the things we've done and work very hard to do is show empathy. Drivers often are on the first rung of the ladder in a city. Driving for Uber is a way to quite quickly earn some money, and they work hand-to-mouth, they will earn the money that day and put food on the table or send money home by TransferWise, and I think understanding that and showing some empathy has taken us a long way. I think insurers the world over have realised they need to treat customers better. You take a look inside the dark world of taxi insurance and customers are treated really, really poorly. And so anything that we do is incredibly well received.
04:39 PD: So affinity, I think being active in their communities is something we've worked hard to do. We launched a product really, really fast, and rather than trying to market a bad product, we iterated and we used the first one, I think it's about eight months of this MVP, a minimum viable product, as testing, and we proved a business case very, very quick, but we saw its failings. And rather than ploughing on trying to tell everyone it's the best product in the world, we reinvented the product. We had some real issues with it, we'd effectively built a mobile front-end business with a fax machine at the back-end. A panel of carriers, a mobile front-end panel of carriers, and we were trying to manage that process, and it was failing, it was incredibly difficult. And so we iterated, we moved really fast. We sought the help of partners, we ended up very happily in a relationship with MRDP, with Munich Re, who understood very quickly what we were trying to do and the idea of a straight-through process of being able to deliver a real-time price very, very quickly.
05:54 RM: What data source does this one rely on?
05:56 PD: Yes, our business is one big data cube and I think it's what we hope sets us apart. We are learning how best to get data off the business, out of everything we do. Every time we connect a driver, we're pulling in data, we're looking at trips, we're looking at location, we're looking a telematics. We ask relatively few questions for an application process, maybe of 25 in a classic insurance quote process, we ask about, I think maybe five, but in the background, we are pulling in data all the time from publicly available sources in New York, or through partnerships that we have with other companies. So data absolutely is the beating heart of what we do. I think beyond that, it's working out how to monetise it, and I think, make it valuable to customers, not just taking data from them for the sake of it, it's finding ways to actually give them some benefit back. So if they're a good driver, they get a better return if they're open and honest with us, they get a better return. And I think we act as fairly and amicably as we can. And I think, again, that sets us apart.
07:17 RM: If I recall right, you have a referral scheme is that right? Do you use that to get to more people?
07:23 PD: Yes, drivers are incredibly well-connected. If you are a Dominican driver, Dominican drivers make up probably 70% of the market in New York. If you're a Dominican driver, you have a brother, a cousin, a relative who also drives, and we identified this ripple that would often happen once we kind of infiltrate in some of the communities, that drivers would tell one another. There are many entrepreneurs, they have fabulous, fabulous characters, they are really entrepreneurial and everyone's got a hustle.
07:56 PD: Everyone's got a network, everyone can help you. But we formalised a program with some of our most influential drivers, our most engaged drivers, a small community of about 800, and at the time we were, we were unfunded, so it was what I call a Blue Peter approach, where you literally stick self-work together to make an automated process. And we incentivise drivers to invite their network to come and try the app. That was very important that we weren't incentivising a quote or a purchase, but just to download and try the app, not a full file of any regulators, and it really has taken off. We are now funded, and are now looking for an automated platform to help us make that process work much more seamlessly.
08:45 PD: So, from giving a driver a dashboard to see that he's got (and sadly, it is he, 96% are male), see how many links he's invited and how many drivers have engaged via his link, how much revenue he is making, and we get a management dashboard to see all the drivers that are inviting others to our product. And that is a huge focus for us because that's advocacy from within, it's not paying Google, it's not paying for our party on Facebook, it's real advocacy from customers that have experienced the product and said, "Actually this has worked for me, I'll share it with you."
09:26 RM: Paul, thank you very much indeed.
09:27 PD: Thank you.
09:27 RM: So everyone, this is Paul 2, Paul Glenn. Paul Glenn is the founding partner of a very interesting business called Gobsmack. Now, the reasons you're about to find about, a lot of you won't have heard about it, but in terms of insurance marketing, I think it's a fascinating play, before I steal your thunder, what does Gobsmack do?
09:58 Paul Glenn: Gobsmack has created a B2B to C digital platform, which is simply aimed at improving customer consumer, and to an extent, SME retention in businesses that have a recurring expenditure. So initially, you start off with the insurance. The centre of the business is a branded, client-branded digital wallet into which cash accumulates. We'll come on to, I guess how that happens, but that's the centre of the business.
10:30 RM: So, who's idea was it, tell me about the story.
10:37 PG: Well, I've had 30 years in the insurance industry, I came into this by meeting the main founder of the business, a guy called John Shaw, he's a branding expert, been in branding business all his life, he was in the banking sector, he then moved into insurance sector via our connection with a guy Max Carruthers who's our Chairman. Max has had a life long career in insurance, he was CEO of AXA at the time. He’d left actually, he’d retired, and gone back to AXA as consultant. He rang John up, he'd come across John in a past life and said "I've got a rewards program in AXA, which isn't working too well, can you come along and help?
11:16 PG: So John went in to see what the problem was, he said, "Yes, I agree it's rubbish it's not working very well, but there's a [I'm not going to just give away the answer], there's a business here" And this stem from - others have said this already - I mean, I think we all appreciate how generally appallingly badly, insurers treat customers. It's very easy to identify and you take the average motor customer who comes into a product day one, first time he is insured with a particular insurer, he is enticed in on a very cheap premium, he possibly bought it through an aggregator and it comes up to renewal. Now insurers generally work on the basis that 30% to 40% of their customers are going to sleep walk through the renewal process. So they increased the premiums say, substantially at renewal, some people sleepwalk through it, don't notice and just pay. Others do notice, go back to the aggregator and get a lot for a cheaper price.
12:12 PG: The best for me is then to say to their current insurer, " I've just got a much cheaper deal, what's going on?" I'll say, "Don't worry, we'll match it." Now, if that's not an appalling way to treat an insurance customer, then I don't know what is. So the whole point of this was to create new value proposition between insurers and their customers, and to try and correct some sort of positive value exchange, which really shouldn't be very difficult because it's so appallingly bad to start with, so that's how it was born.
12:39 RM: So where have you got to, have you got some customers?
12:42 PG: Yes, we've been live now with MoreThan for 15 months. It's fair to say that 2018 was very much, I use the word ‘pilot’. We learnt a lot together. Obviously the centre of the business is a software play and guess what, we had some tech issues initially, so MoreThan have been brilliant in terms of learning with us throughout 2018. It's gone out to proper volume with MoreThan in the first quarter of this year. We - I can't say who it is - but we're just about to launch tomorrow with a very large UK insurer, it's our second major client. We've also got a very large travel business, which is not insurance, as you've probably guessed, which launches early June. We have another insurer, smaller one, launching September and we have a good pipeline in the UK and potentially overseas as well.
13:35 RM: So I'm intrigued. Can you sell this to old insurers, or does it stop being a differentiating tool once they've all got it?
13:41 PG: That's a very good question. No, our aim is not to try and saturate the UK market with this, for obvious reasons, because the insurers that we are contracted with currently, to an extent, want this to be a differentiator for them. So if we try and sell this to every UK insurer going, then clearly that defeats the object. To an extent, we are not overly worried about how many insurance clients we have. For us, it's all about customer exposure, so all we want to see is that any insurance partner is going to expose it to enough of its customers quickly enough to enable us to get traction. So within reason, we don't care whether we've got two insurance clients or 10, but it isn't 10 for the reasons I've said. And so beyond the UK, we'll get into our opportunities overseas, the US being the obvious one, and elsewhere in Europe. So through our connections with MoreThan already we're talking about spreading this to some of their affiliates in Europe and Canada.
14:43 RM: So if someone is interested, they should come and talk to you, you're not maxed out just yet?
14:46 PG: No, we are not maxed out just yet in terms of clients, or funds actually.
14:52 RM: Well, that will raise another question, if you are rushing off to the far corners of the world, where are you with money? You got plenty?
15:00 PG: We're on our fourth fundraise at the moment, we're currently most of the way through a current raise, which is…we're after about three million quid. We could do with another million reasonably quickly, but we're fine. But the next three to four months is crucial, because we will have a lot of data on some high-volume business to really prove the algorithm.
15:22 RM: And so what's customer feedback like? I mean, given you're addressing a very big issue, you must, by now, have some sense of whether it's addressed the underlying issue of improving loyalty?
15:33 PG: Yes. Insurers - it solves a lot of problems for insurers. So as far as clients are concerned, as in insurance clients, it gives them a completely new channel of interaction with their customer base, it gives them new marking rights under GDPR, so as a result of signing up to the rewards program, they are in effect, they are signing a separate set of T's and C's, which means the insurer can communicate to them about offers that the program gives, which can include discounted offers on the insurers own products. So whereas before, they may not have had marketing rights, they now have marketing rights, they can talk to their customers about additional products as part of the program. So it solves a number of issues for the insurer. It improves retention, that's the main thing, which as many of you will know, is extremely valuable to an insurer to get his retention rates up. As far as the customers themselves are concerned - the consumers - we're seeing phenomenal interest.
16:32 PG: There are various stages of registration onto the program, and these include the ability to register a credit or debit card. You can register up to 15; they don't have to do that but we encourage them to do that. There's a browser plug-in, we're getting somewhere like 35% of people registering with the program, downloading the plugin, which makes online shopping very easy, and it means that cash can accumulate into the digital wallet in a virtually frictionless manner. We ask people to tell us what their interests are; their shopping categories. We had somewhere like 40% of people who are registering interacting with the proposition to tell us that, which is fantastic. The average card registration rate per consumer is about 1.7 cards per consumer, which has blown us away, we never thought we'd get that high. So the reaction so far has been very positive.
17:24 RM: Paul, thank you. So if you've got a spare million, come and talk to Paul. And if you work for an insurance company that needs a loyalty scheme, he's also your man. Paul Doran, thank you very much indeed. The announcement that has most captured the imagination and a talking point for us innovators in the last few weeks has been AM Best's announcement that they're going to add the ability to innovate as a rating criteria. So we thought the first thing we would do is get Carlos Wong here who is the Senior Director of AM Best. Now, I know from long experience that the insurance industry is not quite necessarily ready to engage, what are you expecting as result of this? Are you expecting studied silence, or are you expecting people to rush to your door and ask you what they need to do?
18:23 Carlos Wong: Well, until now, we have actually had a very positive response on this. So this hasn't been just something that came out of the blue in March this year. In the last two years, there has been quite a lot of interaction with the industry. We carried a survey in September 2018 with a very high level of participation, around 90% of respondents, and the outcome of this was that it is definitely something that companies consider very important, very relevant. From a ratings agency point of view, it is an element that we can see as long-term indicator and differentiator of financial strength, which is eventually what we are after. So there are questions, definitely. Yes, for example, rating contacts. One of the main questions they are asking is, "What else do we need to do? How much work, or innovation to the work that they already do when they interact with us, is required?
19:30 CW: And the other point is, obviously, see what sort of impact they expect to have in the ratings. And the answer to that is it's going to be a gradual process. It's something that we think that we have already been doing but we want to give them more structure. And at this stage we are not expecting any material impact on rating outcomes. It is something that with time, is going to start having more and more weight into the rating process as a whole.
20:07 RM: Well on behalf of all of the innovators, thank you very much because it has got people talking, and it has created some external driver which might well be a powerful force for good. Don't move because I'm going to ask Dan up - Dan White who is the managing partner of Ninety, a gold sponsor of ours and good friend to InsTech London. Dan has been innovating in insurance around product and has a very well-thought-of insurance product design agency. So look, you are steeped in this stuff. What do you think insurers are going to do as result of the AM Best announcement?
20:46 Dan White: I think the announcement from AM Best is something that we welcome very wholeheartedly, as a formal recognition of the link between innovation maturity and innovation effectiveness on one hand, and financial performance on another. We think it's a really strong validation of the work that we do. I've brought with me a handful of copies, pre-released copies of reports, a white paper that one of my colleagues has written, which is looking at the direct relationship between innovation and insurance and company value. There's a lot of evidence behind that link. A bunch of positives, Robin, in what we see in the AM Best announcement and we're going to be responding to the consultation. Thank you for the opportunity to do so. Some of the positives are really, the fact that you're looking at the long-term outcomes of innovation rather than just the activity. Secondly, the emphasis on people and the people involved in the process - they make innovation happen. It's a lot to do with character and personality. And thirdly, the level of transformation and the kind of indication that you're going to provide that. It's going to provide a sector-wide view of how disruptive are things? So those are all positives to be welcomed.
22:00 RM: But if you're an insurer, or you're advising insurers, what are you going to tell insurers to address in the knowledge that AM Best are going to come calling at some point and they need to seem to be more effective in this stuff.
22:13 DW: I think we wouldn't particularly change our tune, which is that doing innovation well is good for your business. And regardless of whether AM Best are going to be crawling over things to put a score on it, you should be doing it because it's the right thing to do. Day-to-day practice. The execution of disciplined innovation is what matters, and it's actually a very, very nuanced thing. So there are number of questions that we've got around the methodology which we'll be submitting in our response to the consultation. Some of these are around things like the importance that we see in incremental innovation - horizon one - the kind of small scale stuff. We believe if you do a lot of that well, actually, that gives you more competitive advantage than the one or two big things which can be more easily copied. So that, I'd like to see a little bit more in the methodology, also a greater emphasis on customer-led innovation - on customers in the room - doing innovation as close as possible to the customer rather than in the centre of the business.
23:16 DW: One of things I'm conscious of is the difference in innovation intensity between different categories of innovation. We're running an interesting study at the moment called The Idea Pulse where we're taking the temperature of innovation across the whole innovation market globally. And we're seeing a really strong difference between categories like personal loans, car and life insurance. Big, big differences in how intense and how much your innovation is taking place. I think that there's something to be thought through in that. And I also have a mild concern that the score could be gamed.
23:49 RM: You've been providing this health check for some time. Is that a tool that you think the industry could use to kind of assess its readiness for an AM Best credit review type approach?
24:05 DW: It could be, I think. What matters is to take a real look under the hood of the insurance business in every kind of area and work out where are we good at innovating, where we poor at innovating? What are the things that are holding us back in dealing with those and doing more of the things that are good behaviour. So with the clients that we've worked with, we've been rolling out a health check tool that we call the maturity audit, which is looking specifically for many of the things that you're going to be looking for, actually. And I thought I'd share a few of the findings that we've seen when we've run that on some of the insurers, probably some of the ones in this business actually or in this room actually. So just a few interesting findings which might be useful on this. The first is insurers tend to rate themselves very strong on strategy and are quite poor on execution. So they’ve got a good innovation vision, but very poor at the discipline to deliver it. This is self-rated.
24:58 DW: The second thing we see is that management tend to score themselves better at innovation than the staff do. There's quite a strong difference there. And that's one of my worries about the scores that you might get. And then a couple of specifics here; a third of the insurers or people within insurers who we've surveyed here, didn't know whether their own chief exec monitored or had an active interest in innovation. That's a third of people not knowing whether their CEO cared about innovation - we think that's shocking. Possibly more shocking, when we looked at the gender split in innovation practice. Women within insurers are reporting in our health checks, about 20% less sense of empowerment, of engagement, or envisionment in the innovation process, so 20% less likely to submit ideas than a man. We think that's shocking, alright? But what's cool about this kind of detail is that it allows you to do something about it, you can target interventions against this stuff. So to answer - sorry in a slightly long-winded way - your question, yes, the kind of health check that we run in principal might be an interesting start point, to think on that line.
26:07 RM: I think it will turn up things that are far more exciting than simply, “Are you any good at innovating?”. If people are interested in running a preview, if they want to know more about it, what do they do?
26:19 DW: Our website is Ninety.com Get in touch, it'd be good to talk to you.
26:23 RM: Carlos, any thoughts on that? Anything you want to follow up with?
26:27 CW: No, I think that's it. We've been discussing with third parties and we're open to new ideas so it will be definitely interesting to hear from you. Part of the ultimate objective of the project is to have these scores actually published so we're very well aware that the companies will try to start bench-marking each other and say any point of reference will be helpful. Thank you.
26:53 MG: Both thank you very much, that was terrific. Thank you for your contribution. This is Milan Sud who is the head of innovation at AXA Partners. We all know AXA but what part does Partners play in that huge group?
27:18 Milan Sud: It's sometimes slightly confusing for me so I can imagine externally it's even more so. But AXA Partners predominantly make it easy for other organisations to do insurance so we allow other organisations to take our products and distribute them to their customer base. Traditionally, we've been in the insurance sector, so allowing other insurers to sell our products, but increasingly as an organisation we've gone through what start-ups go to through to a certain extent which is we'll try and do everything B2C. That's great to a certain extent and when you work for an organization like AXA and have the history and the scale and the brand and the marketing budget, that's good. But actually, we've recognised there's huge rewards in more of an ‘ecosystem play’. We are now basically allowing our insurance products to be distributed by a whole range of organisations from retail, telco, travel companies, utilities - you name it. We're going after them in terms of allowing them to distribute insurance.
28:25 RM: Is that what I called B2B2C with you doing the B and somebody else doing the B and C?
28:31 MS: Yes, precisely that. We recognise that organisations outside of the sector have fantastic relationships with their customers. Their customers quite often have more affiliation to their brand and we thought, "Why the hell are we trying to go out and build all of that when they have these good relationships already that we can leverage?" We’re allowing them to drive ancillary revenues alongside their core products and leverage the goodwill that their customers often have with them.
29:01 RM: So you make somebody else do your marketing for you?
29:04 MS: To a certain extent.
29:05 RM: It's very clever.
29:06 MS: I think it's about recognizing what you're very good at. Especially when you're in an industry that's being disrupted, you should really focus on fundamentally what you're very good at and try and build out from there. We are very good at doing insurance and we recognise there are a whole range of organisations who are, to a certain extent, better than us at doing marketing so why would we not work with those organisations to distribute our product?
29:32 MG: Very smart. What organisations are you after? Who do you go after? Does it have to have a huge scale or is it particular things here?
29:42 MS: We go after a whole range of organisations. One of the fortunate things with working in an organisation like ours is that we don't have to necessarily just go straight after the big-ticket items that have the immediate scale for there and then, although they're fantastic if they fall into our lap, clearly. Just recently, we've done some deals with organisations like EE, the UK's largest telco, with Scottish Power, one of the Big Six energy providers and those deals are fantastic. But we're also looking at those organisations that give us longevity in terms of distribution. We recognise that there are many organisations who have a lot of potential scale and we're willing to take bets on those organisations, partner with them and hopefully build a relationship that allows us to distribute long into the future.
30:30 RM: I don't know why I'm asking this because it's a dangerous question, but why are insurers so crap at marketing?
30:38 MS: I think insurers aren't necessarily crap at marketing but they haven't had to be good at it to a certain extent. And the reason for that is what we all know that certainly in personal lines, insurance aggregators play a huge part in the way that we distribute our products and services. We know that customer behaviour generally dictates that they will come to renewals, a speaker touched on it earlier. They will look for a cheaper price and they will then go back to their insurer who will try and match it. And it's not a fantastic customer experience but it's one of those things where you either take a very big gamble and choose not to play in that space - an organisation like Direct Line or someone like that who are very clear about not being in that space - or you play the game. And actually insurers have for a long time, recognised that there are necessity purchases and being on these platforms means that they'll probably get enough traffic to continue to drive business.
31:31 MS: What I'm seeing through working across a whole range of sectors is that there are organisations who are much better at slotting product into people's lives at the right time, and I think that fundamentally customers - people - are lazy. They don't like to have to go in and put information into a third party system elsewhere to get something. If an organisation can service the right product at the right time through the right channel and it's a decent price, they're going to buy that product. And I think that's where, from a marketing perspective, we have to get much cleverer about how we use data in order to service the right product for the right customer at the right time, rather than necessarily just being on these generic platforms which requires a level of productivity from a customer.
32:19 RM: That begs last question which is, is the future of marketing for organisations like yours as a ‘partner’ or do you go and nick their ideas and bring them back to insurance?
32:31 MS: It comes back to a point that I touched on earlier, we are very good at what we do and we will always improve on what we do but it's also about recognising that organisations out there, whether small or large have their own skill set, have their own assets, and are very good at what they do, in particular. And we very much take a partnership approach. The clue is in the name, AXA Partners. We are not here to come and cannibalise businesses. I've worked with organisations like FinTech companies before and tried to make them pivot. But too many times it ended up killing the business. We're not about that. What we're looking to do is work with large industry players who have a certain skill set through to insure tech, who have a certain skill set and see how the assets that we have - brand, scale, history, a fantastic ability to level insurance - marries up with what they have, to ultimately build a product or build a service that really will revolutionise the market.
33:34 RM: I've been banging on about eco-system for some time. It seems this lies at the heart of this whole thing. Milan, thank you very much.
33:42 MS: Thank you everyone. Cheers.
33:49 MG: Well, thanks to everybody who joined us for this event and made their way up to Zurich where we were a guest of Amnesty International. We'll be back next week with the second half of the evening when we add a little bit more about our companies’ marketing and in particular, how organisations such as Concirrus have been successful marketing in the B2B space - notoriously difficult to break into as an outsider. Also hearing from companies like Marketing Eye and Slipcase and what they are doing to promote insurance companies and innovation in the space, and also an expert from LinkedIn on how to maximize your presence on LinkedIn. Then finally, we'll hear about the cyber-hack promotion that Hiscox ran where they had more than 20 million downloads of our video. In the mean time, you can learn more about what we're up to on www.InsTech.london including our future events and you can also sign up for our newsletter.